Second Nature

He Never Wanted to Go Viral. That's Why Brands Trust Him.

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 24 Jul 2026 12:03:02 GMT

Starting Line

We started this conversation on stage at TrailCon, but when the panel was over, we realized we had so much more to dig into. The original panel was “Athletes As Creators”, so we picked it up from there and kept it going. Tommie shared his approach to brand partnerships, content creation, and his approach to growth. This is Tommie’s first appearance on the podcast, but certainly not the last.

Listen To Second Nature

He Never Wanted to Go Viral. That's Why Brands Trust Him.

Tommie Runz started running in 2018, a year after choosing sobriety, and began documenting the journey simply because it felt good to share progress and get encouragement. Seven years later, he's built an audience of over 30,000 through nothing but consistency and honesty — no viral moments, no big follower jumps, just a steady climb built entirely on trust.

In this conversation, Tommie and Aaron pick up where they left off after a live panel at TrailCon, digging into what it actually looks like to build a career as an athlete-creator without compromising who you are. Tommie breaks down why he's turned down "ambassador" deals that undervalue creators, how relationships with brands often take years rather than emails to develop, and the moment he realized his content needed to sound exactly like him or it wasn't worth doing at all.

Episode 166

You Can Do It

If you’re an aspiring creator, looking to walk the path that Tommie talked about in today’s episode, Popfly is the best way to make that happen. On the Popfly platform, there are brands, ready to support you and looking for your talent. We’re using it outside of the podcast and having a lot of success with it - and this is exactly why we wanted to partner with Popfly in the first place. Highly recommended!

Popfly for Athletes/Creators

Popfly for Brands

Job Of The Week

If you’re on the hunt for a job in the industry, this newsletter has all the goods!

WIRE: The Work in Running Email

100+ New Roles: Strava, HOKA, Smith Optics, norda, Nike, and More. FT/PT/Remote

Note: This newsletter is long and could get cut off by some email services. Click the headline (100+ Roles) to view it online…

6 days ago · 3 likes · 1 comment · Mike Hahn

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share Brands we’ve discovered, Products we’re using and Content that we love.

🎽 Currently: Tommie came through with Brand, Product AND Content this week on the podcast. If you haven’t had a look at Currently yet, take this as a sign - they just released eyewear, too!

🎙️ Best Running Podcasts: After our podcast with Centium, Hans Kristian Smedsrød took inspiration from the lessons in the episode and created the highest ranked website for best running podcasts! And yes, Tommie’s podcast, PR Project is on there!

👉 Precision Hydration: Precision has been supporting Tommie at his big races this season - including Western States, which he just completed.

🏔️ Aaronnomics: Tommie shared another outdoor creator that he’s discovered, check him out!

Thank You

Stay tuned for next week, we’ve got an outdoor clothing brand that took inspiration from a very different place than most brands. They were previously mentioned in a BPC segment, and we know you’re going to love next week’s podcast as much as we did.

State of the Industry: Trail Running at TrailCon

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 17 Jul 2026 12:01:11 GMT

Starting Line

Steve Holmberg and Matt Trappe return! We got to spend a lot of time together recently during the week of TrailCon, and wanted to share out the emerging trends in trail running (and beyond) and the discussions that we had a chance to participate in. Trappe also built out an incredible house with amazing people, soul-nourishing food and deep conversations - so we dug into the behind-the-scenes story of how it all came together (and what’s next).

Listen To Second Nature

State of the Industry: Trail Running at TrailCon

Steve Holmberg and Matt Trappe are back for a debrief on one of the biggest weeks in trail running — Broken Arrow, Western States, and everything in between at TrailCon. Steve breaks down his state-of-the-industry analysis: why trail running's rebrand from "ultra running" unlocked massive new participation, why the sport is about to fragment the way mountain biking did decades ago, and why brands chasing "max" specs are about to pivot to "right" specs built specifically for trail.

Then Matt takes listeners inside a project few people got to experience firsthand — a house in Tahoe built with Skratch and other partners, designed to bring brand leaders, athletes, and creators together without competitive walls. He explains the intention behind it, what happened when 37 of 40 people in the room spoke up during an unscripted conversation, and why some of the best moments of the week happened specifically because they weren't being recorded.

Episode 165

We Saw It Happen

We had the Popfly crew rolling with us at TrailCon, and it was so fun to introduce them to our friends who work in the industry, because it felt like everyone had been looking for a solution to the problem that Popfly solves. They connect athletes and creators with brands and businesses in the outdoor, travel and adventure space. At this point, you’ve likely heard about Popfly, but I would seriously encourage you to look into this platform if you haven’t already. There’s something special going on here, and seeing brands discover this in real time at TrailCon only solidified that for me.

Popfly for Athletes/Creators

Popfly for Brands

Article Of The Week

Perfectly timed with our state of the trail running industry episode, Seth LaReau’s shoe sponsorship power rankings for Q2 just dropped. Read on!

Trail Waves

The Trail Running Shoe Sponsorship Power Rankings (Q2 2026)

It’s been a whirlwind of a summer. I spent the last week of June at TrailCon and Western States, my next door neighbors’ house burned down on the Fourth of July, and I’m now on an annual family camping trip in the Santa Cruz mountains. The internet here is spotty, I’ve been trying to unplug as much as possibl…

18 days ago · 1 like · Seth LaReau

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share Brands we’ve discovered, Products we’re using and Content that we love.

🎥 "Raise The Bar" Film: This film by Hilary Yang and Carrie Highman follows the journey of the women at Western States: Heather Jackson, Cindy Shepard, Fuzhao Xiang and Eszter Csillag.
⚡️ Marin Rift Zone EL XR: Steve got his first taste of eMTB this past week on Aaron’s bike, and after seeing the look on his face, we doubt it will be his last e-bike ride. The EL version of this bike is a “light” e-bike, meaning it has a smaller/lighter battery, making the bike handle like a normal mountain bike. Just enough assist to keep things fun!
🎯 Golden Hour Racing Shirt: Aaron swooped Matt Trappe’s latest Auteur Sportif shirt at TrailCon, the “Golden Hour Racing” shirt. There is a full capsule on the Auteur Sportif site if you want to check it out!

Thank You

A big thank you to everyone who joined us at TrailCon for the panels, meetups, and conversations. It was great to meet so many of you in person at the event, and we’re already excited for next year.

We’ve been recording a ton of podcasts lately, and there are some incredible conversations coming your way. Stay tuned!

The Last Time Someone Reinvented Camping Was 1962

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 10 Jul 2026 12:00:36 GMT

Starting Line

Ramble was a BPC entry from Mel Strong a few months back, and if you know anything about this podcast, you know that we are her biggest fans and will follow any and all of her recommendations. So it was only a matter of time before we got the founder of Ramble, Matt Oesterle, on the podcast with us to learn more about his business. And not only how it’s going today - but how he got here, from choosing the idea and his thoughtful approach to the experience.

Listen To Second Nature

The Last Time Someone Reinvented Camping Was 1962

Matt Oesterle built his first company, Callisto Media, from zero to $85 million in revenue by using data to disrupt the book publishing industry. Then he sold it to Penguin Random House and asked himself: what's the next industry that hasn't been forced to evolve? The answer was camping — an industry whose biggest brands were founded in the 1960s and haven't changed much since.

In this conversation, Matt walks through the framework he uses to pick businesses, how he designed the Ramble campground experience from scratch, and what it takes to build a hospitality brand that maintains a 4.98-star review score while scaling to 100+ locations. He also gets into the role of data versus instinct in entrepreneurship, why type two fun is a hiring requirement for his team, and why you don't have to be a sociopath to build something great.

If you've ever looked at an industry and thought "someone should fix this" — this is the episode for you.

Episode 164

Here To Help

The most common refrain we hear from friends working at brands is “we need to find content creators, but we are strapped on time”. This is the exact problem that Popfly has solved. If you’re working at a brand that needs this kind of help, you need to check this out (and tell them we sent you), it’ll be worth it. And…if you’re an athlete or creator, you should definitely get on this platform - there are brands, ready to support you and looking for your talent. We’re using it outside of the podcast and having a lot of success with it - and this is exactly why we wanted to partner with Popfly in the first place. Highly recommended!

Popfly for Athletes/Creators

Popfly for Brands

Article Of The Week

Jonathan Levitt worked with Michael Rueckert from Centium AI (check out Michael’s episode on Second Nature here) put together this giant study about running brands and AI. How are people finding the best running shoes, the best races, and everything else? That’s exactly what this study is all about. They went deep, have a look!

Jonathan Levitt

How AI Recommends Running Brands in 2026: The Largest Study Yet.

A growing share of runners have stopped Googling “best trail shoe” and started asking ChatGPT, Gemini, or Claude. Whatever the model says back is the new top of the funnel. I wrote about that shift a while ago in The New Top of Funnel Is a Chat Reply…

22 days ago · 3 likes · 4 comments · Jonathan Levitt

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share Brands we’ve discovered, Products we’re using and Content that we love.

🏔️ RAB: This mountaineering gear looks legit! Matt Oesterle shared this as his brand, one that he relies on for all of his adventures in the mountains.
📈 The Algorithm (Book): The ex-President of Tesla Motors shares the framework(s) that Elon Musk instilled in him as they ran and developed the company.
🚀 MFM Pod - The Algorithm Author: If you don’t want to read an entire book, but you still want access to the frameworks and ideas, this episode of MFM covers pretty much everything (also, MFM is one of our favorite podcasts).
🤖 New Yorker Profile - Sam Altman: “Can He Be Trusted” is the byline of this article. AI has made a dramatic impact on our world already, and this guy has a lot to do with that (for better or worse).

Thank You

A big thank you to Mel Strong for making the introduction to Matt and the team at Ramble. Stay tuned for next week, Steve Holmberg and Matt Trappe return to the podcast to talk about emerging trends in the outdoor industry.

Martyn Ashton on Rideable Now and the Future of Adaptive MTB

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 03 Jul 2026 12:01:19 GMT

Starting Line

There’s a short list of “dream guests” for our podcast, and Martyn Ashton has been on this list since we started. The list of reasons why we admire him is a mile long, but his latest effort - launching Rideable Now - is what we want to share with everyone. Adaptive mountain biking is going through an incredible phase of innovation at the moment, and Martyn’s efforts are making those bikes more attainable and visible.

Listen To Second Nature

If this episode resonates with you and you’d like to support Rideable Now, here’s the link to do so. Join Aaron (and many others) in supporting the cause with a £5 monthly contribution.

Support Rideable Now

Martyn Ashton on Rideable Now and the Future of Adaptive MTB

Martyn Ashton spent two decades as one of the most influential trials riders in the world — making the smallest, most niche discipline of mountain biking accessible and exciting for a global audience through videos, shows, and a personality that made everyone feel like they could try it. In 2013, a crash during a stunt show left him paralyzed. Now he's doing the exact same thing all over again — this time for adaptive mountain biking.

In this conversation, Martyn walks through the founding of Rideable Now, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to helping people with disabilities and life-changing injuries access adaptive mountain bikes. He explains why modern adaptive bikes aren't a watered-down version of mountain biking — they're genuinely terrifying, capable machines that unlock every trail in the world for people who never thought they'd ride again. He also gets into the economics of £25,000 bikes, why the e-bike power race could go too far, and the moment he gave away Rideable Now's first complete bike to a father of three who had no idea it was coming.

Episode 163

We Keep Hearing This

We just got back from TrailCon, and the conversations we had with brands there all pointed to the same struggle. They know they need to be working with creators, but most of them are too busy to find the right ones and get it off the ground. This is the exact problem that Popfly has solved. If you’re working at a brand that needs this kind of help, you need to check this out (and tell them we sent you), it’ll be worth it. And…if you’re an athlete or creator, you should definitely get on this platform - there are brands, ready to support you and looking for your talent. We’re using it outside of the podcast and having a lot of success with it - and this is exactly why we wanted to partner with Popfly in the first place. Highly recommended!

Popfly for Athletes/Creators

Popfly for Brands

Article Of The Week

A big congratulations to Seth LaReau for one year of Trail Waves. Amazing how much can change in a year!

Trail Waves

A Year Ago, This Newsletter Didn't Exist. Last Weekend, It Brought Me to Western States.

[Note: this post contains a lot of pictures and videos and may be truncated in some email clients. I suggest clicking through to read the full post on Substack…

a month ago · 22 likes · 18 comments · Seth LaReau

Matt Trappe created an incredible space in Tahoe last week - where we were invited to host a night for an offline Second Nature conversation. This is a mega update from Matt, including some TrailCon/WSER stuff, and then some. We’re going to have him on the pod to dive even deeper into this, but this is a solid preview!

A Matter of Brand

From the Front Row at TrailCon and Western States

A lot to unpack here. I was busy. Hang on, this one’s a banger…

a month ago · 12 likes · 8 comments · Matt Trappe

Job Of The Week

💧 HydraPak is hiring a Content & Social Media Strategist.

🟧 ACG has a role open in Shanghai, China leading Sport and Marketplace Integration.

🚀 Our friends at Popfly are hiring a Client Success & Partnerships Manager.

🏃‍♂️ Tailwind Nutrition is looking for an Associate Creative Director.

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share Brands we’ve discovered, Products we’re using and Content that we love.

💨 Topeak Electric Tire Pump: Tire pumps have come a long way in the past few years - no more manually pumping your tires on the side of the trail (or anywhere else). As an added bonus, all these electronic pumps typically have a digital tire pressure gauge included. Too easy!
🤯 Stashed Spacerail (10% discount link): Martyn and Aaron both swear by this bike storage setup, and if you haven’t seen it yet - now’s the time. Getting bikes up off the floor makes a HUGE impact on your space (and organization), and the way Stashed puts it all together makes it super easy to install and use. Game changer!

Thank You

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode - this one meant a lot to us. Next week’s episode is with a founder who was previously mentioned on BPC by one of our favorite recurring guests. Stay tuned!

You've Heard Of Heat Training. Here's How It Actually Works.

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 26 Jun 2026 12:03:17 GMT

Starting Line

To be honest, we thought this episode was going to be a straightforward discussion about heat training and the tools to get the job done. What we didn’t expect was a deep conversation about completely changing directions with your career, and the intention and framework to think about that decision. This episode has two chapters, really, and they’re both fascinating.

Listen To Second Nature

You’ve Heard Of Heat Training. Here’s How It Actually Works.

Ross McGraw has had one of the more interesting career arcs in the outdoor industry — from Nike's NYC Run program to Vice Media and Viacom, to helping build Hammerhead through its acquisition by SRAM, and now leading commercial efforts at CORE, the company changing how elite athletes think about heat.

In this conversation, Ross breaks down the science of heat training in plain language — why 80% of the energy athletes generate is thermal, how heat zones work, and why the world's best cyclists and runners are training in heat suits before major races. He also gets into what it felt like to go from being a cog in a media machine to betting on himself in sports tech, why triathlon taught him more about business than any corporate job, and how to know when you're doing the "social run" version of your career.

Episode 162

Here To Help

Popfly for Athletes/Creators

Popfly for Brands

Job Of The Week

💪 Exos is looking for a Director of Sports Media, PR & Social.

Article Of The Week

This week at TrailCon, we got to spend a lot of time with incredible people. Dan Coe is one of those people, and his work with The Brand Report is worth checking out (and bookmarking) if you haven’t already. Super thoughtful, well-researched articles that will be a great resource for anyone in the outdoor industry (and beyond).

Read: The Brand Report

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment, where we share Brands we’ve discovered, Products we’re using and Content that we love.

⚽️ World Cup - Adidas ad: This ad resonated with so many people, and has now made a few appearances in BPC. If you haven’t already watched this whole video start to finish, take this as a sign.
💨 Breathe (Book): We sometimes take the act of breathing for granted, but this book gives new shape to it. Aaron read this a while ago and the lessons are still sticking with him (see the next line, too).
🤐 Respire Mouth Tape: Aaron’s been on a quest to find the best mouth tape, especially since Amazon has some weird rules around it. This one has been the best (so far), if you’re looking to tape your mouth shut when you sleep, too. 😆

Thank You

To everyone who came up to see us at TrailCon to say hi and talk about the podcast: thank you so much. We put a ton of effort into making this podcast happen, and it means the world to hear from you. Thank you for supporting Second Nature!

Next week’s podcast is an extra-special one, with an incredibly inspiring figure in the world of adaptive sports (and one of Aaron’s personal heroes). Stay tuned!

The One Question Every Brand Needs To Answer

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 19 Jun 2026 12:02:35 GMT

Starting Line

Mattie Sims, the co-founder of Courier and Mate the Agency, joins the podcast this week. Originally we thought we’d have a great check-in about Courier, since it’s been about a year and a half since we’ve checked in on the pod. But Mattie had so much more to share; this conversation is loaded with some incredible insights for entrepreneurship, brand building and beyond. We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did!

Listen To Second Nature

Courier x Second Nature

To celebrate this episode and the Second Nature community (not to mention the second appearance of a Courier co-founder on the podcast), Courier is giving a 15% discount to Second Nature listeners. Use code SECONDNATURE15 at checkout!

Courier Socks

The One Question Every Brand Needs To Answer

Mattie Sims has built brands at Lululemon, Electronic Arts, Reef, and Rally Pickleball — and along the way developed a framework for brand building that most founders skip entirely. Now she's applying everything she's learned to two ventures at once: Courier, a performance sock brand built around the idea of the "Renaissance athlete," and Mate the Agency, a brand strategy firm working with founders across industries.

In this conversation, Mattie walks through the muse framework she learned at Lululemon and has refined across every role since — why the most important question isn't "who buys this product" but "what is this person worried about when their head hits the pillow at night." She also gets into why looking branded is not the same as having a brand, what happened when Rally discovered their customers weren't there for pickleball, and why having her son was the thing that finally convinced her she could be an entrepreneur.

Episode 161

Here To Help

Popfly for Athletes/Creators

Popfly for Brands

Job Of The Week

🚀 The Athletic is looking for a Head of Social and Off-Platform Growth.

📲 Aravaipa is hiring a Social Media Manager.

🏔️ This Area Community Director (USA) role at Arc’teryx is still open. Check it out!

Article Of The Week

Every article that Seth LaReau drops is an instant read - we’re forward to seeing him at TrailCon and having these kind of in-depth conversations in real life!

Trail Waves

Who's Actually Betting on Trail Running?

Nike put ACG on Olympic athletes, decked out the Western States champion in a prototype cooling kit, and spent $225,000 to sponsor major prize purses for Broken Arrow and Gorge Waterfalls. Yet the company discloses $0 in trail or outdoor revenue and barely mentions ACG on its earnings calls…

2 months ago · 19 likes · 9 comments · Seth LaReau

Show Notes

Mattie Sims
Courier Socks
Mate The Agency
Rally Pickleball
Mate IG Carousel Link
Carrie Rheaume (Mate agency co-founder)
Matt Sims
Gartner Hype Cycle
Morgan Tuohy
Dera
Ryan Thrower

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share Brands we’ve discovered, Products we’re using and Content we love.

🎯 Seniq: Mattie shared this clothing brand that is absolutely nailing it with their muse, which was perfectly in line with our discussion about brands on the podcast. Stay tuned, the co-founders of Seniq will be on the podcast soon!
😎 Summer Edition - Red Bull: There’s a wild story behind the original Summer Edition (different flavor than this year), if you haven’t listened to the podcast episode yet, it’s worth sticking around to hear this story.
🤯 Billy Oppenheimer’s newsletter: One of Aaron’s favorite weekly reads - the latest issue had a story about “treating everything as extraordinary”, which is a great reminder for all of us.

See You At TrailCon!

Only a few more days until we head to Tahoe for TrailCon, please come up and say hello if you’re there - and join us Wednesday morning at 9am for the Second Nature Social in the Alpenglow room. See you soon!

The Sunscreen Brand That's Rewriting Performance Science

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 12 Jun 2026 12:03:45 GMT

Starting Line

We met Tom Austen at Sea Otter earlier this year, and after a few minutes chatting with him, we knew there needed to be a dedicated episode with his story. We’ve been using Pelotan for a while (Jeremy Dunn brought it as a BPC for the famous “you can just do things” episode), and now we have the full story.

👉 There is a reference in this podcast to the Gartner Hype Cycle, definitely have a look at this, because it’s appeared in multiple conversations since then. This feels like the perfect visual representation of what many of us have gone (or will go) through.

Listen To Second Nature

The Sunscreen Brand That's Rewriting Performance Science

Tom Austen is the founder of Pelotan, the world's first sun performance brand, and co-founder of Chance Running, a trail running apparel brand he's building with pro athlete and serial entrepreneur Christian Meier. Both brands are based in Girona, Spain — a two-square-kilometer pocket of world-class endurance athletes, cafes, and startups that's become the Boulder of Europe.

In this conversation, Tom walks through how Pelotan went from a sunburn problem on training rides to winning two Tour de Frances with Team Sky in its first year, and how the brand is now pioneering something entirely new: treating the sun as a performance variable rather than just a health risk. He also gets into the Chance origin story, why cross-pollination across categories is the key to building something original, and what it's like to run two high-growth startups at the same time from a city of 100,000 people.

Episode 160

Here To Help

Popfly For Creators

Popfly For Brands

Job Of The Week

👉 Arc’teryx is hiring an Area Community Director for the USA. Check out this job description…this looks really interesting.

Article Of The Week

Congrats to our friend Jonathan Levitt for making the leap one full year ago! Interesting to read his experience over the past year, it’s been fun to watch this unfold (and we’re extremely grateful for his support via the Long Run Labs Network).

Jonathan Levitt

One Year of Betting on Myself

A year ago I left a job I’d held for over a decade…

2 months ago · 20 likes · 21 comments · Jonathan Levitt

Show Notes

Tom Austen
Pelotan
Chance Running
Second Nature - Sea Otter Episode
Christian Meier
The Gartner Hype Cycle
Pelotan Apres Aftersun
Pelotan App for Second Nature listeners
Broken Arrow Skyrace
Lael Wilcox

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share Brands we’ve discovered, Products we’re using and Content we love.

🥦 Nomio: How far would you go for a performance boost? How about drinking broccoli juice? This was the first we’d heard of this magical elixir, but Tom says it’s legit!
🏆 Adidas World Cup ad: This reference is going to appear in upcoming episodes, and it’s clear after watching this why it made such an impression on so many of our guests.
⚽️ Nike - Airport soccer: Another legendary World Cup ad from many years ago, we had to dig deep on YouTube to find this one!
🎥 Insta360 GO Ultra: Aaron’s go-to lightweight 4K camera, the size of a GoPro battery! This thing has some serious power, and you won’t even notice it’s there.

Thank You

Next week we’re bringing on an incredibly talented guest who has co-founded both a brand as well as a brand agency. She shares some incredible frameworks that anyone can apply and follow - and gave us so much insight into her approach to entrepreneurship. We can’t wait to share this one with you!

Behind The Brand: Athletic Brewing

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 05 Jun 2026 12:02:16 GMT

Starting Line

Athletic Brewing has made a substantial impact on the outdoor industry with their “Two For The Trails” program (over $10M funneled to trail advocacy so far). This week, we got to sit down with Bill Shufelt to hear about the founding story, creating a category that everyone had written off, and how he’s navigated the entire process.

Listen To Second Nature

Behind The Brand: Athletic Brewing

Bill Shufelt was a hedge fund analyst who didn't drink, couldn't find a non-alcoholic beer worth ordering, and one night his wife spun him around on a sidewalk and told him to do something about it. Eight years later, Athletic Brewing has 300 employees, four breweries, over a million barrels of capacity, and has almost single-handedly turned non-alcoholic beer from a stigmatized afterthought into 20% of all beer at Whole Foods.

In this conversation, Bill walks through the full journey: the two years of research before he quit his job, the valley of darkness where no brewery, distributor, or investor would take his calls, finding his co-founder John Walker through a brewing forum post (with the words "non-alcoholic" deliberately removed), and the grassroots field marketing strategy that built the brand one race, one taproom, and one six-pack at a time. He also gets into the competitive explosion that followed, why he views 200 brands entering his category as a positive, and what it's like to redefine success once the business reaches cruising altitude.

If you've ever looked at a category and thought "why hasn't anyone fixed this yet", this is the episode that shows you what happens when someone actually does.

Episode 159

Here To Help

Popfly For Creators

Popfly For Brands

Job Of The Week

🚀 Our friends at Popfly are looking for a full-time Customer Success & Onboarding Manager.

🎯 Milky Way Park (just on the pod a few weeks ago) is hiring a Head of Marketing and Engagement.

👀 This adidas role for Director of Partnerships & Affiliate Marketing is still open.

📲 Aravaipa is hiring a Social Media Manager in Phoenix.

🔥 There are more roles open in our Second Nature Slack Channel, if you’re not in there already, we highly recommend it!

Article(s) Of The Week

If this week’s episode on Athletic Brewing got you interested in exploring a few NA Beers, check out this newsletter, The Modern Substitute. Our friend Myles runs this weekly newsletter, which shares all the latest brands and products in the NA category.

The Modern Substitute

Friend of the podcast and all around legend Yuri Hauswald took on an absolutely monumental task: starting dead last in easily the gnarliest 200 mile gravel race on the planet (Unbound) last weekend. The plan was this - for every rider he passed, he would raise money for charity. Yuri also handed out “golden tickets” during the race with prizes to the riders on course. He’ll be posting more about his race effort shortly, but until then, have a look at everything that went into it. Hats off to Yuri for an incredible effort (and outcome)!

Yuri Hauswald

The Summit Push

As you all know, five months ago I began a journey to be my best physical self for the 2026 Unbound 200, considered by many to be one of the hardest gravel races in the country. To reach that goal I began working with a coach, and good friend, Serena Gordon, who designed a training plan that capitalized on my strengths, focused on my weaknesses, and wa…

2 months ago · 5 likes · 2 comments · Yuri Hauswald

Show Notes

Popfly For Brands
Popfly For Creators
Bill Shufelt
Athletic Brewing
John Walker
1000 True Fans (Article)
Do Things That Don't Scale (Article)
Two For The Trails
What It Takes (Book)
The Obstacle Is The Way (Book)

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share Brands we’ve discovered, Products we’re using and Content that we love. Bill brought all kinds of great stuff to BPC this week, so we had to match his energy with one of our most in-depth BPC segments of all time! (Did anyone else catch him casually referencing a previous episode’s BPC??)

🇮🇪 Dirt - Ireland: Arguably one of the best ongoing content series in the world of outdoor, Huckberry’s Dirt series travels to Ireland.
👖 Gremicci: Bill called these his “weekend dad pants” with tons of pockets, perfect for climbing, too.
🧗‍♂️ Hopa Hopa Climbing Wall: Parents with active kids - here’s the pro version of the indoor climbing wall. These look rad!
🏃‍♂️ Kawa: Dylan ran into some hikers recently wearing these pants, and they caught his attention, so much that he stopped them to ask where they were from.
🏔️ Raide Research - LF 5L Vest: Our friends at Raide Research just released a new vest, just in time for a summer of running through the mountains.
🍺 The Modern Substitute: If you want to learn more about NA beers and beverages, our friend Myles puts together a weekly newsletter about all the new products and brands launching in the industry.
🚲 Kids Ride Shotgun: For anyone with kids, this is a great way to ride bikes together. The seat mounts ahead of you, so you can keep an eye on your kiddo. Highly recommended!

Thank You

First, a big thank you to Mel Strong for making the introduction to Bill Shufelt. This was a fun conversation to record, we hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. Stay tuned for next week, we’re joined by someone who was briefly on the podcast a few months back, but we needed to have them back on for a much deeper conversation.

What Happens When You Actually Ask For Help

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 29 May 2026 12:03:31 GMT

Starting Line

It’s a common refrain on the podcast: “You can just do things!” But the next step after deciding to do something is the most crucial - asking for help. Morgan Tuohy did exactly that when he created Dera, and in today’s podcast, he breaks down exactly how he leaned on the Second Nature community (and others) to help him get his business off the ground. We couldn’t be more proud of Morgan - and our community - for this one, and we’re so excited to share this week’s podcast with you.

Episode 158

What Happens When You Actually Ask For Help

Morgan Tuohy is seven days into the launch of Dera, a trail running belt brand built around a BOA-style dial closure that nobody's tried before in the category. He sold out of two sizes in under eight hours, shipped hundreds of belts from his living room until 3 AM, and had $500 left in his bank account two days before launch. He's 27 years old.

In this conversation, Morgan walks through the full founder journey — from stitching prototypes in his attic with fabric from old running shoes, to convincing one of Osprey's largest factories to take a chance on him, to the moment Tim Tollefson told him he wasn't allowed to NOT do this. He also talks openly about his first failed brand, why he set three rules for himself this time around ("I know nothing, everyone else knows everything, and they all want to help"), and how seven members of the Second Nature Slack channel played a direct role in getting Dera off the ground.

This is a brand launch captured in real time — and a reminder that sometimes the best businesses start with a sewing machine in an attic and the willingness to ask for help.

Episode 158

Connecting The Dots

This past week, we had an incredible outcome - a brand that we connected with on Popfly decided to build a long-term partnership with Aaron and his mountain bike content. This relationship started on Popfly and grew into something incredibly valuable for everyone involved. The Second Nature x Popfly partnership came from the opportunity we saw for both brands and creators to collaborate effortlessly, and now we're getting a chance to experience this firsthand. If you haven’t already given the Popfly platform a look, we highly recommend it.

Popfly For Brands

Popfly For Athletes/Creators

Job Of The Week

💧 HydraPak is looking for a Run Marketing Project Manager based in Longmont, CO.

👉 adidas is hiring a Director, Partnerships & Affiliate Marketing based out of their Portland, Oregon office.

🏃‍♂️ Bandit has a ton of open roles across operations, retail and design - have a look!

Article Of The Week

This is not a drill…Kilian Jornet now has a Substack. If this first article is any indication of what we can expect from him on here, this is an instant-subscribe.

Kilian Jornet

The race I couldn’t miss

At the end of January, I received a text message from Ainhoa…

2 months ago · 165 likes · 18 comments · Kilian

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content we love.

🍽️ Goodles: Gal Gadot took a break from Hollywood to launch a mac-and-cheese company, and Morgan swears by these as his carb of choice!
🩻 Dexa Scan: Like a human-sized scanner to gather data about muscle, body fat and bone density. If you haven’t heard of this five-minute scan, it’s worth a look. Aaron just got his done (and then promptly fed all the results into Claude to find ways to optimize).
👟 Kiprun - Kipsummit Max: Dylan is working hard to prepare for the upcoming Hardrock race, and part of that process is testing all sorts of gear to find the right setup. Kiprun is making a big push into the USA at the moment, and this pair of shoes is currently along for the ride on DBo’s training mission.

Thank You

We want to say a huge THANK YOU to everyone from the Second Nature community that supported Morgan. As much as today’s episode was about Morgan and his effort to launch a new running brand, this podcast was also about how incredibly supportive our community is - and how much knowledge is on tap in our Slack channel (and beyond). Thank you to everyone who helped Morgan, and thank you all for being part of the Second Nature community.

You Can Just Build Things Now

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 22 May 2026 12:02:37 GMT

Starting Line

We love to lean on friend-of-the-pod Steve Holmberg for insights into the world of outdoor and brands, but his latest move has our galaxy brains in overdrive. Instead of relying on the typical routes to gather insights from consumers, Steve utilized a new platform to create a totally new way to get the job done. We think you’re going to love this episode - and we can’t wait to see what it inspires you to make!

Listen To Second Nature

You Can Just Build Things Now

Steve Holmberg is one of our favorite recurring guests, and this time, he showed up with something nobody expected. Over the holidays, Steve went from zero coding experience to a fully functional AI-powered app called Field Check, built using the vibe coding platform Lovable. The app connects retail store associates directly to brand product and marketing teams through AI-driven chats that go deeper than any survey can — and he built the whole thing in about a month.

In this conversation, Steve walks through exactly how he did it, what he wishes he'd known before starting, and why AI is "a tool masquerading as a solution." He also deployed Field Check live on the Second Nature Slack channel to surface what the audience actually wants — and the results are fascinating.

Episode 157

The Playbook For Outdoor Brands

Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly, and recently they posted an article that is an actual playbook to answer the question “How Global Brands Should Partner With Outdoor Creators”. We highly recommend checking it out - and if you’re a Brand in the Outdoor industry, or a creator/athlete, click these links (and support Second Nature) to get set up on the platform, or get a customized brand demo.

Outdoor Brands - Check Out Popfly

Creators/Athletes - Get Set Up

Job Of The Week

Vibram is hiring a Sports Marketing Manager out of their Boulder office. Looking through the job description, this one looks fun!

Article Of The Week

Steve joins us regularly on the show to share insights, predictions and recommendations - but if you don’t want to wait until his next podcast appearance, you can follow him here!

The Field Report

The Desire for Something Different

Why are we seeing Vuori everywhere at the gym? Alo in the studio? Sporty & Rich on the tennis court? Malbon on the course? Or vintage tees on a run…

2 months ago · 2 likes · Steve Holmberg

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content we love.

🎙️ Jason Fried - David Senra Podcast: This episode has been mentioned offline to us quite a few times, it’s an incredibly insightful episode with a founder who built multiple products from scratch - and continues to demonstrate successful (and sustainable) scaling over time.

🪣 Adventure Bucket List: This is a 50-pack of scratch-off cards, organized by state or region, with different adventures that you can take (ranked by location, cost, time of year, etc). A new way to get out there and adventure, we’re already off to a good start with these cards!

Thank You

We always love having Steve Holmberg on the pod - and we can’t wait to see him on stage at TrailCon in just a few weeks. We’re super excited for next week’s podcast - we caught the founder of a new trail running brand 7 days after the launch of his company, and we think it’ll be an insightful look into everything that went into the brand - stay tuned!

Thanks for listening to the podcast this week, if you’re not already with us in the Second Nature Slack Community, here’s the (free) link to join in!

What 5.5 Million Followers Taught Her About Brand Social

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 15 May 2026 12:00:59 GMT

Starting Line

Our friend Maren has been in the world of Brands and Social Media since the earliest days, and the insights that she has gathered along the way can help anyone - brand or creator - become successful. We’re lucky to be able to work with Maren in her current role, and on today’s podcast, we got her to share a ton of actionable insight. This was a fun one, we hope you enjoy it as much as we did:

Listen To Second Nature

What 5.5 Million Followers Taught Her About Brand Social

Maren Hamilton ran global social at The North Face — building and executing a strategy for 5.5 million followers, integrating athletes and creators, and navigating every platform shift from the follow graph to the discovery graph. Then she left to help build Popfly, the creator platform built specifically for the outdoor industry.

In this conversation, Maren shares the playbook she developed at TNF for running brand social at scale, including how to say no to the hundreds of internal requests that flood every social team, why the outdoor buying journey is fundamentally different from fashion and beauty, and what brands still get wrong about TikTok, Threads, and Facebook. Plus: Why Head of Social to CMO is now a real career path, what makes a creator pitch actually land with a brand, and the Adidas sub-two-hour marathon moment that might be the greatest brand activation of the decade.

Episode 156

Marketing Resources For Brands & Creators

On this podcast, and many others, we’ve talked about how Popfly helps brands and creators make connections. But one other thing that we’ve found valuable are the articles and insights they share on their blog. Check out some of the latest articles:

The Missing Piece in Most Tourism Marketing Strategies

Why Outdoor Creators Outperform

The Tools You Need In Your Adventure Creator Toolbox

If you’re a brand or creator reading this, we highly recommend joining us over on Popfly. You can get a custom demo or jump right into the platform using our links:

Creators: Start Here

Brands: Get A Custom Demo

Job Of The Week

👉 If you listened to this week’s episode and got excited about a role in social media, you are in luck! Keen just listed this role: Senior Director, Social Media.

👀 Nike has an opening for a Sports Marketing Director, Running Athlete Development.

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share Brands we’ve discovered, Products we’re using, and Content that we love.

🏔️ Halfdays x HOKA: Maren brought this collaboration to our attention, we haven’t seen HOKA do anything like this before, and it turned out really cool. Have a look if you haven’t already!

👉 Keen x 18 East: Maren shared this collab between the two brands, we’re digging the texture of these shoes, very cool.

🤣 Gnarly Nutrition x DBo: It’s been years since this came out, and we still can’t get enough of this video. If this podcast thing doesn’t work out for DBo, acting might be another career path!

🔥 Supercommunicators (Book): This is probably the closest (and most recent) guide to improving your communication skills, developing relationships, and so much more. Fascinating read!

🎙️ Supercommunicators author on MFM: If you don’t want to read an entire book, this podcast covers a lot of the insights with the author. MFM is a perennial favorite amongst our crew, if you haven’t listened to it, we highly recommend it!

🏆 Adidas Pro Evo 3: The shoe that officially smashed the two hour marathon barrier. You’ve undoubtedly heard about the result, now have a look at the shoe that did it!

Thank You

Next week on the podcast, we are joined by a crowd favorite - but this time, he’s got something completely new that is going to get everyone’s galaxy brains turned on. We can’t wait to share this one with you.

What Outdoor Brands Get Wrong About Storytelling

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 08 May 2026 12:02:47 GMT

Starting Line

We are so excited to have Matt Trappe back on the podcast, this chat was overdue to say the least. He made his first appearance on a 2025 predictions podcast, and for some reason, it’s taken us until now to get him back in the mix. We hope you’ll agree that it was worth the wait: Matt delivered the goods on this episode. Today’s pod is a literal playbook for brand storytelling.

Listen To Second Nature

What Outdoor Brands Get Wrong About Storytelling

Matt Trappe is a photographer, filmmaker, creative strategist, and the voice behind the Matter of Brand newsletter: one of the most consistently sharp reads on brand building in the outdoor space. In this conversation, Matt and Aaron dig into why leading with innovation and tech has become table stakes rather than a differentiator, the three elements that make a brand story actually stick, and why the most powerful thing a brand can do right now is invest in longer attention channels rather than chasing short-form reach.

Episode 155

The Struggle Is Real, But It Doesn’t Have To Be

Today’s episode covered the pain points that brands face when it comes to storytelling - but one of the tools to make things easier for brands is a platform called Popfly, which connects outdoor brands with creators and athletes. Popfly supports Second Nature, and we are partnered with them because we believe this is truly a valuable solution for our industry. Have a look (or get a custom demo) and you’ll see what we mean:

Work at a Brand? Get a custom demo!

Athletes and Creators - Get setup here!

Job Of The Week

🏔️ HOKA has multiple roles open: Sr. Director, Global Brand and Product / Sr. Designer, Digital Concept Design / Sr. Brand Planning Manager.

❄️ The Snow League is adding two roles to their events team: Event Production Coordinator / Event Operations Manager.

👟 Veloci Running is looking for a Footwear Product Developer.

Article Of The Week

Matt Trappe was our guest on today’s podcast, so we’re definitely going to highlight his Matter Of Brand article on our newsletter. What perfect timing, too - he’s got a fresh article about this week’s biggest event.

A Matter of Brand

On the Ground at Cocodona: The Future is Female and It's Coming Fast.

I picked the perfect year to go see what it’s all about. Just six years old, yet, it has quickly become one of the marquee events on the trail running calendar, an unprecedented ascendance. The Cocodona 250 is not the first 200+ race by any means but it’s the first to unlock some big differentiators. Here’s why you need to be paying attention…

3 months ago · 1 like · Matt Trappe

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content that we love.

⚡️ Are.na: Matt Trappe shared this website, which is a way to collect and organize design inspiration. Sort of like an updated Pinterest for design and branding.

👓 Smith ODS5: If you have glasses (or contacts) and have been looking for a better way to ride/run without them, these new prescription inserts for shield-style sunglasses are Aaron’s recommendation.

Thank You

Wait…it’s May already? The season is officially in full swing, and we couldn’t be more excited. We’ve got some really fun episodes coming up that we can’t wait to share, stay tuned!

Why Your Brand's YouTube Channel Is Failing (And How To Fix It)

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 01 May 2026 12:03:31 GMT

Starting Line

We are excited to bring back Jeff Pelletier to the podcast! This time, instead of digging into his backstory (that episode is here), we decided to create a tactical and strategic playbook for brands - and creators - to use for content creation. This was a fun discussion, we hope you find it useful! There is also a link to a powerful brand/content presentation (which has not been published anywhere else) hiding in the podcast and show notes.

Listen To Second Nature

Why Your Brand's YouTube Channel Is Failing (And How to Fix It)

Most outdoor brands have a YouTube problem. They're just not talking about it. Jeff Pelletier is a filmmaker, trail running creator, and one of the most thoughtful students of YouTube strategy and in the outdoor space. In this episode he breaks down why most brand channels are underperforming and what to actually do about it. We cover the difference between consistency and familiarity, why athlete-led channels outperform brand channels, the Marvel cinematic universe framework for building an audience around characters, and how YouTube's new collaboration feature changes the game for brand-creator partnerships.

If you work at a brand, or if you're a creator who wants to bring more value to the brands that back you, this episode is required listening.

Episode 154

Follow Through On This Podcast’s Tactics

One of the big themes on the podcast is finding the right talent to help brands create content. If that's something on your to-do list, you need to check out our partner, Popfly. Their platform connects brands with outdoor, travel, and adventure creators — making it easy to set up content briefs, manage campaigns, handle payments, and run affiliate programs, all in one place. One of the biggest friction points for brands and creators has always been just getting connected and getting to work quickly, and Popfly solves that.

Work At A Brand? Get A Custom Demo!

Creators, Sign Up Here!

Article Of The Week

This is the article from Jeff Pelletier that launched today’s episode, highly recommended!

The Long Game

Why Most Brands Fail on YouTube (And How to Fix It)

Spend just a few minutes on a YouTube channel for most major brands and you’ll notice something strange…

4 months ago · 6 likes · 1 comment · Jeff Pelletier

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content we love.

👀 Hover Air ProMax: This floating follow cam has been popping up everywhere lately, and it’s small enough to fit in your running pack!
🎥 Jeff's Hover Air video: Jeff did a complete video about the Hover Air, if you want to get his direct feedback from using it.
🏆 DJI Osmo Pocket 3: If you’re a creator (or a brand wanting to create), this camera is the best possible piece of gear you can use to capture content. There’s a Pocket 4 being launched very soon, too - but either one will get the job done.

Thank You

Stay tuned for next week’s conversation about Brand Storytelling - a perfect follow-up on today’s episode. We’re excited to have Matt Trappe back on the podcast, it’s a good one!

Why PR Is Now More Powerful Than Paid Search

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 24 Apr 2026 12:01:17 GMT

Starting Line

It’s been a massive week, and we’ve got two podcast conversations to share with you. First, the live podcast that we recorded last week at the Sea Otter Classic with a bunch of interesting industry friends - and then, today’s podcast conversation with Michael Rueckert. You may recognize his company, Centium, from a handful of references in previous podcasts - and after hearing what he has been working on, we had to have him join us on the podcast. We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did!

Listen To Second Nature

Why PR Is Now More Powerful Than Paid Search

Michael Rueckert was a ski resort marketing director who got curious about a simple question: when someone asks an AI where to ski, does Snow Basin show up? That curiosity led him down a rabbit hole that eventually became Centium, a platform now working with over 170 outdoor brands to help them understand and improve their visibility across every major AI model.

In this conversation, Michael and Aaron dig into how ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, and Perplexity each "think" differently about outdoor brands, why landing a GearLab ranking may now be worth more than any paid search campaign, and what it means for marketing when AI starts making purchasing decisions on behalf of humans. They also go deep on the practical side — how to set up Claude projects as a creative co-pilot, why taste is still the irreducible human advantage in an AI world, and why the outdoor industry is actually better positioned than most for what's coming.

Episode 153

Sea Otter Unfiltered!

We went to Sea Otter Classic and brought a bunch of industry friends onto the podcast. Jeremy Dunn (Smith Optics), Braydon Bringhurst (Hard MTB League), Eric Porter (PorterMTB YouTube), Tom Austen (Pelotan), Rachel Fussell (People For Bikes), Steve Blick (Oakley / Shimano) and Yuri Hauswald (GU) all joined us for some great, unfiltered conversations.

Episode 152

Connecting The Dots

We are proud to be supported by Popfly, a platform that connects brands and creators to support campaigns, and plenty more. They simplify the entire partnership, creation and promotion process around campaigns and initiatives, and open doors to additional opportunities for everyone involved.

Work At A Brand? Get A Custom Demo!

Athletes/Creators! Get Started Here.

Job Of The Week

🏆 Athlete management role incoming! Brooks Running has a Principal Program Manager, Athlete role open. Connect the dots between athletes and the product team!

🔥 Aravaipa Running is looking for a Lead Designer & Project Coordinator.

🎯 Veloci Running is hiring a Product Developer in Austin, TX.

🚀 Huckberry has an open role for Copywriter (on-site, not open to remote).

Article Of The Week

Separating the signal from the noise on growth in the industry - Trail Waves is at it again with solid data and analysis!

Trail Waves

Is Trail Running Actually Growing? Here's What the Data Says.

My first trail ultra was the 2019 Orcas Island 50K, which I ran on my 33rd birthday. It was a sliding doors experience that permanently changed my life. Ever since, I’ve dreamt of toeing the line at Western States. As the oldest 100-miler in the world, run each June in my home state of California, it feels like an inevitable pinn…

3 months ago · 35 likes · 10 comments · Seth LaReau

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content we love.

👉 Scott Sports: Michael’s focus outside of Centium is a ski resort, so naturally an outdoor brand with a US office in his home state is the perfect fit for his BPC. Scott makes plenty of great winter (and summer!) sports gear.
🤘 Gnarly Nutrition: Michaels’ go-to nutrition is also based in his home state, the Gnarly crew has supported a bunch of our friends and has a fun approach to their marketing content.
🤣 DBo’s Gnarly Video: If you haven’t already seen this video, THIS IS REQUIRED VIEWING. It’s a few years old, but still hilarious!
📕 Go-Giver (Book): Christian Rawles inspired the connection and conversation in this week’s podcast, and this book was a gift from him, too.

Thank You

Next week, we’ve got a familiar face joining us on the podcast to talk about content, and what brands are missing out on (and how they can adapt to change that). Stay tuned!

Bikes Are Bigger Than The Industry Thinks

Aaron Lutze — Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:03:25 GMT

Starting Line

We’re releasing this week’s podcast a few days early, because one of the biggest bike events of the year is happening later this week, and we wanted to talk all about it. And - if you’re going to be at Sea Otter - please come join us Thursday and Friday morning at the Smith Optics booth (at 9am) for live podcasts and plenty more.

Listen To Second Nature

Popfly Connects The Dots

The best part about the upcoming week at the Sea Otter Classic is the ability for Brands and Creators to connect directly. But even with a massive international event that hosts over 1,000 vendors, it’s not always as simple as it sounds to make those connections (and Sea Otter only comes around once a year). Popfly is the platform that brings Brands and Creators together in a meaningful way - supporting campaigns as well as creator initiatives. We’ve been using Popfly for our own businesses, and it’s opened new doors for some incredible opportunities, right out of the gate. Please support Second Nature by clicking the links below:

Brands: Get A Personalized Demo

Creators: Start Here!

Bikes Are Bigger Than The Industry Thinks

What if bikes could transform cities, create economies, and solve problems nobody thought they were for?

We're joined today by Peter Abraham, one of the most connected and strategic minds in the bike industry, just ahead of Sea Otter Classic. We cover a lot of ground: the state of the bike industry after a brutal few years, why e-bikes are reaching people the legacy brands never could, what London and Paris figured out about infrastructure that LA hasn't, and why Bentonville might be the most important proof of concept in outdoor sports right now.

Plus: the $21 million Scotland Mountain Bike Innovation Center, the LA Olympics bike infrastructure push, and why the brands at Sea Otter with just a tent and a couple of bikes on stands are leaving a lot on the table.

Episode 151

Job Of The Week

🎙️ Our friends at Voicing Change Media are looking for a Partnerships Manager.

🏆 Global Triathlon Network is hiring new on-camera talent!

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content we love.

🚴‍♂️ Bicycle Diaries (Book): David Byrne (from the Talking Heads) wrote this book about his cycling adventures all around the world.

🌊 Barbarian Days (Book): Even if you don’t surf, this book is incredible. Arguably one of the best sports memoirs out there.

🤯 Levrack: If you’re building the dream scenario for storage in your garage, this might very well be the most insane setup of all time. We just discovered this brand, and we are obsessed.

🎯 Kitworks: Staying organized once you leave your garage is the real challenge for most of us - Kitworks makes it easy with their gear organization. This completely changed our approach to pre- and post-shred organization (and…let’s be fair, our previous approach was a pile of gear on the passenger seat).

Thank You

An early thank you to everyone who is joining us at the Second Nature meetup at Sea Otter, we can’t wait to see you there!

150 Episodes In, We’re Just Getting Started.

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 10 Apr 2026 12:01:36 GMT

Starting Line

It feels like it was yesterday that we crossed the milestone for 100 episodes, but would you believe that was almost a year ago? A lot has changed in the past year, and we’re celebrating those changes on today’s episode.

Listen to Second Nature

150 Episodes In, We’re Just Getting Started.

50 episodes. Two years. No shortage of stuff happening.

On this milestone Bro Pod, we take stock of where Second Nature has been, and where things are heading. Digging into what's actually changed in 2026: what we've removed, working with an executive coach, launching a live weekly show, and opening the first mountain bike retail store in Shenzhen, China. Plus a real conversation about the grind before the momentum, why the irons are finally heating up, and what it feels like when years of consistent work starts clicking into place.

Episode 150

Why We Chose Popfly

We went deep on this week’s episode about why we chose Popfly as our first partner with the podcast. The platform has so much value to both Brands and Athletes/Creators, and it’s a great way to make and manage the connection between both sides. If you have a brand campaign, need content made, or just want to find top talent - this is the place. Not only that, but the tools on Popfly streamline the entire process, for both sides of the equation. We HIGHLY recommend a personalized demo of the platform, click below to get set up (and support your favorite podcast in the process).

Work At A Brand? Click here.

Are You A Creator/Athlete? Click here.

Job Of The Week

🏅 Want to work for The Olympics?! The Associate Director, Fan Experiences role is currently open!

👟 New Balance is hiring a Senior Marketing Manager, Global Run.

👉 Columbia Sportswear has an opening for an APAC Marketing Manager.

👀 Going to Outdoor Retailer? The Wild Reach Creator Program is live on Popfly, where 150 creators can get paid to attend the event to make content.

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using, and content we love.

📕 Thinking In Bets (Book): Aaron is currently reading Annie Duke’s book about making decisions with incomplete information.

👟 Speedland RXLDVL: Dylan has been testing all sorts of shoes for his upcoming Hardrock race, and this new release from Speedland is leading the charge.

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you for supporting Second Nature over the past two years as we’ve found our way here. Thank you to everyone who has been a guest on the show, everyone who has shared in the Slack channel, and most importantly - everyone who has listened to us. Upwards and onwards to the next milestone!

Why Curiosity Outlasts Strategy

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 03 Apr 2026 12:03:04 GMT

Starting Line

We are so excited to have Floris Gierman on the podcast today; we’ve been trying to organize this one for a while, and finally all of our schedules aligned to make it happen! We had a great time digging into his past, present and future - and how they all seem to magically connect to create the perfect conditions for everything he’s putting energy into. We hope you love this conversation as much as we did!

Listen To Second Nature

Connecting Brands and Creators

We are so proud to announce our first ever partnership, and we wanted to make sure that we collaborated with a business that brings value to as many people listening to this episode as possible. If you’re not familiar with Popfly, it’s a platform that connects brands to outdoor, travel and adventure creators. They streamline the entire collaborative process, from bringing the brands and creators together around campaigns, to dealing with payments and affiliate programs to keep it all organized.

From Aaron: Having been on both the Brand and Creator side of this equation, I can tell you that the way Popfly organizes everything is a level above anything else I’ve experienced. Most brand collaborations are chaotic at best, and this platform simplifies it better than anything I’ve seen. I recently set up my storefront and joined my first campaign, and honestly, it felt frictionless compared to every other brand deal I’ve ever done. This is the real deal.

If you’re interested in Popfly, please support Second Nature by using these links:

Personalized Brand Demo

Creator Setup

Why Curiosity Outlasts Strategy

Floris Gierman has it all: he's an author, content creator, co-founder of a running apparel brand, and so much more. His approach in hindsight seems methodical and measured in its approach, but the truth is that this all came around from years of consistent, small steps. In this episode, we dig into the day-to-day as well as the big picture of Floris Gierman's world.

Episode 149

Job Of The Week

🏃 New Balance is hiring a Senior Marketing Manager, Global Run Energy.

🔥 Red Bull is looking for a Brand & Partnerships Manager to drive social strategy.

🚀 Raide Research has five new roles open - go check them out!

Article Of The Week

Seth LaReau drops bangers like this on a regular basis; we’ve become huge fans of Trail Waves. If you were going to invest in trail running as a category, here’s the case to be made for the entire industry. Fascinating to see how Seth pulled it all together here:

Trail Waves

The Trail Running Investment Thesis

Imagine you’re not reading a newsletter article, but instead you’re a founder walking into a partner meeting at a top-tier VC firm, pitching trail running as an investment category…

4 months ago · 34 likes · 9 comments · Seth LaReau

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content we love. Dylan and Aaron also shared their favorite gear recommendations (unprompted!) from Floris’s brand, Path Projects.

⛳️ Manors Golf: There are a bunch of brands developing in the golf space that are super interesting right now - and Manors is leading the charge!

🤯 KetoneIQ: Floris’s secret weapon for authoring his book Running Breakthroughs was a tiny bottle of KetoneIQ.

👉 Path Projects Base Liner: Dylan’s pick for favorite Path Projects gear is their base layer, something he’s been buying and implementing since they first came out.

📕 The Way Of Excellence (Book): Brad Stulberg has written more than a few incredible books, this one is a guide to true greatness and deep satisfaction in a chaotic world.

👕 Path Projects Basis Tee: Aaron’s pick for favorite Path Projects gear is the Basis Tee. Not only is it great for workouts, runs and rides - it’s the perfect thing for long days in airplanes. Breathable, flexible, durable - and doesn’t get gross like a cotton shirt would after 12 hours of flying.

🔥 Backcountry Slickrock Kit: Aaron’s first campaign (as a creator) with Popfly was around the new Backcountry MTB kit - and he chose the oil slick blue kit for it. Have a look!

Thank You

If you’re going to be on-site at the Sea Otter Classic in a few weeks, we are doing a Second Nature meetup and live podcast recording! Thursday AND Friday morning at the Smith Optics booth, be there at 9am to hang with us. We also have a “Sea Otter Survival Kit” for the first 20 people to show up every day, you don’t want to miss it!

The Evolution of Brands, Athletes and Creators

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 27 Mar 2026 12:03:54 GMT

Starting Line

The bar is set pretty high when it comes to a Jonathan Levitt appearance on the podcast. His previous two episodes have been masterclasses in performance vs brand marketing and partnership 101 (go listen to them if you haven’t already). Over the past year, he’s been working hard to develop the Long Run Labs Collective, helping outdoor and running podcasts find brand partnerships that deliver. This episode is all about the key learnings and insights that have come through over that past year.

Listen To Second Nature

The Evolution of Brands, Athletes and Creators

If there's one thing for certain, it's that nothing ever stays the same - doubly so if you're a brand in the outdoor space or an athlete or creator. Over the past year, we've had so many discussions about what's working, the right way to approach it, and how it has evolved.

Episode 148

Job Of The Week

👀 Keen has a role open for a Senior Director, Social Media and 16 other jobs!

🚀 Hollow Socks (mentioned in this week’s episode) is hiring a Sr Manager, Fulfillment & Channel Operations.

😳 Steamboat Springs is still looking for a Director of Marketing. Dream job!

🏃 Tracksmith is hiring a Production Manager, based in Boston.

👉 Our friends at Raide Research are have five roles open - have a look!

🔥 Popfly is looking for Freelance video editors and a Senior Growth Marketer.

Article Of The Week

Matt Trappe rules. Every post he shares is loaded with solid insights and actionable stuff. Conveniently, this week’s article is perfectly in line with the theme of our podcast. Read on:

A Matter of Brand

New YouTube Strategies for Athletes and Brands

YouTube is the most streamed video app in the world. Despite that accolade I think it’s still underutilized by brands and athletes in our sport. Collectively we are constantly experimenting with the ways it can be most effective…

4 months ago · 10 likes · Matt Trappe

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content we love.

📕 Raziq Rauf "This Is Running" (Book): Raz was recently on the podcast, and now his long-awaited book has hit the shelves! Get your copy now if you haven’t already!
🤯 Seth LaRue Trail Waves: Trail Waves has been referenced in this newsletter multiple times so far, it’s one of our favorite Substacks to check out. Seth dives deep into the industry and offers up some insightful perspectives.
🚴‍♂️ Wahoo Kickr: If you want to ride a bike indoors, this setup is the move. You can drop your existing bike on it, easy setup and tons of fun!

Thank You

Wow, only two episodes until our 150 episode milestone! We’ve got some exciting conversations lined up and we can’t wait to share them with you. In addition to that, we have a special announcement that we’ll be sharing along with episode 150. Stay tuned!

A Refreshing Approach To Acquisition In the Outdoor Industry

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 20 Mar 2026 12:00:59 GMT

Starting Line

It’s always interesting to have four people on the podcast at one time, but we are so glad that we did it for this week’s episode. Adrian Ballinger, outdoor legend and founder of Alpenglow Expeditions, recently went through an acquisition process with Milky Way Park - and we got a chance to ask Adrian and MWP’s Matt Lloyd-Thomas all about it.

Listen To Second Nature

A Refreshing Approach To Acquisition In the Outdoor Industry

Recently, two long-standing outdoor industry businesses, Alpenglow Expeditions and Thomson Bike Tours, were acquired by Milky Way Park. But while acquisitions are nothing new to the outdoor industry, the way it came together (and continues to develop) is worth a closer look. On this episode, iconic athlete and Alpenglow founder Adrian Ballinger joins Milky Way Park's founder Matthew Lloyd-Thomas to share the story.

Episode 147

Job Of The Week

🚀 Our friends at Raide Research are hiring. Five incredible roles just opened up, take a look and tell them we sent you!

🌎 Lululemon is looking for a Senior Global Sports Marketing Manager.

🏃 Tracksmith is hiring a Production Manager, based in Boston.

👀 Catch the latest job postings and outdoor industry discussion in our (free) Slack Channel:

Join Second Nature Slack

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content that we love. This week’s guests knocked it out of the park - they delivered on all three categories!

🔧 Luft Bike Shop: Matt’s favorite shop in LA - definitely worth a look!
🚴‍♂️ Zipp 404 Wheels: Fast, favorite wheels from Zipp - a solid option if you’re joining a Thomson Bike Tour (or smashing Strava routes in NYC).
📕 Keith McNally "I Regret Everything" (Book): A memoir about NYC, unreasonable hospitality and plenty more.
🥹 Derek Thompson - Fatherhood: This article caught all the dads on the podcast - it’s a must-read, whether you’re a parent or not.
🧦 Lenz Heated Socks: These socks are an absolute game-changer for Adrian, highly recommended if you have cold feet about getting outside!
🏆 Broken Arrow Skyrace: Legendary Tahoe race, led by friend-of-the-pod Brendan Madigan.
🎙️ Tangle Podcast: A podcast that shares left, right and individual opinions on politics.
📷 Freehub Magazine: Mountain biking’s high quality print magazine, incredible images and storytelling in every episode.
🤯 John Mackey on David Senra: The founder of Whole Foods meets the host of the Founders podcast.
👉 Jason Fried on David Senra: The founder of 37 Signals shares the message: “your only competition is your cost”. Worth a listen!

Thank You

The return of “The Professor” next week - one of our favorite recurring guests joins the podcast to chat about content, partnerships, and how to bring the most value while building trust with the community.

The Future Of Investing In The Outdoor Industry

Aaron Lutze — Fri, 13 Mar 2026 12:01:29 GMT

Starting Line

Mel Strong absolutely crushed it during her first appearance on the podcast, and now she’s back for a round two. During this conversation, we cover a lot of ground - but we think you’ll especially find the segment about raising funds and capital deployment to be particularly fascinating.

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The Future Of Investing In The Outdoor Industry

Mel Strong made a meaningful impression during her first appearance on the podcast, and we've got her back on the podcast again to demystify how brands can raise capital, how to speak to boards and VCs, and to answer the all-important question...should we have our own venture fund?

Episode 146

Job Of The Week

🔥 Under Armour is looking for someone to lead Global Brand Events for them. Massive!

🏔️ Saatchi & Saatchi is hiring a Content Specialist for Outdoor and Adventure.

🇬🇧 UK-based? Apidura is hiring a Senior Softgoods Designer.

Article Of The Week

If you’re not already subscribed to Matt Trappe’s Matter Of Brand newsletter, we highly recommend it. Here’s a taste of his most recent article:

A Matter of Brand

A Look at Product Launch Storytelling

I was going to send this Friday but with so many people in LA for the marathon and Las Palmas for Transgrancanaria I decided to wait. I hope the event and travel hangover isn’t hitting you all too hard…

5 months ago · 22 likes · 3 comments · Matt Trappe

Show Notes

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

BPC is our closing segment where we share brands we’ve discovered, products we’re using and content that we love.

⛺️ Ramble Campground: Mel recently invested in Ramble, which is building outdoor camping spaces with a fresh, new approach.
👕 Path Projects - Basis Tee: These shirts are becoming Aaron’s go-to for all activities - not just running and riding. We’re looking forward to having Floris from Path on the podcast later this month!
📕 The Courage To Be Disliked (Book): Don’t let the title fool you, there’s a lot more to this book than just the title. Dylan has been reading this one lately and pulling a lot of wisdom from it.

Thank You

This week’s episode was one of our favorites, it’s always great to have Mel join us on the podcast! Next week, we’ll continue with another conversation with a similar thread of investment in the outdoor industry. Stay tuned!